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Ked zabijate medveda kobercovym naletom budu lietat triesky

lekvar's picture

Nema moc velky vyznam komentovat postup policie voci serverom spolocnsti Websupport. Jednoznacne mozno tvrdit, ze v ramci trestneho konania moze policia zabavit server, ci dva. Otazne je však je či si polícia može, pokiaľ má na výber z viacerých možností ako to spraviť, zvoliť ľubovoľnú alebo nie. Opakovane zastávam názor, že inštitút uchovania a vydania počítačových údajov podľa § 90 Trestného poriadku je na tento účel presne ako stvorený.

Keď polícia niečo chce, môže webhostera požiadať , aby určité údaje uchovával a udržiaval v celistvosti, aby prístup k týmto údajom znemožnil, odstránil ich zo sytému alebo ich vydal na účely trestného konania.
Inak povedaná, polícia môže získať údaje, ktoré má na hostingu Janko Mrkvička bez toho aby zobrala server, kde má svoje údaje 100 alebo 1000 dalších ľudí. Na druhej strane polícia môže zobrať aj celý server. Avšak na dosiahnutie cieľa treba voliť primerané prostriedky - stačí si pozrieť základné zásady trestného konania, najmä tú ktorá je uvedená v § 2 ods. 2 Trestného poriadku:

Do základných práv a slobôd osôb v prípadoch dovolených zákonom možno zasahovať len v miere nevyhnutnej na dosiahnutie úcelu trestného konania, pricom treba rešpektovať dôstojnosť osôb a ich súkromie.

Inak povedané, keď ide polícia streliť medveďa, má dve možnosti:

a) zobrať pušku s ísť zastreliť konkrétneho medveďa, ktorý napríklad vyžiera kontajnery v dedine
b) zavolať na najbližšiu leteckú základňu, nech naložia všetko čo dokáže niesť zbrane napalmom a bombami a nech les, v ktorom sa vraj nachádza medveď vypália a vybombardujú do tla.

Podľa môjho skromného názoru (vo svetle doteraz známych tvrdení) polícia postupovala druhým spôsobom, teda "tak trochu" možno nerešpektovala zásadu zdržanlivosti a primeranosti. Jej účelom je obmedziť zásahy do základných práv a slobôd na najnevyhnutnejšiu mieru, ktorá je potrebná na zistenie trestných činov a spravodlivé potrestanie ich páchateľov a na uskutočnenie
spravodlivého procesu. Trestný poriadok z určitého dôvodu (nazvime to napríklad historické skúsenosti) zvýrazňuje rešpektovanie dôstojnosti osôb a ich právo na súkromie.

Ďalšou otázkou, ktorú si treba položiť, je to, že čo sa asi nájde na nejakých serveroch po viac ako roku od udalosti o vyšetrovanie ktorej vraj ide.

Takže asi bude na čase začať vyčíslovať škody... A chystať sa na právnu bitku, ktora nebude jednoducha. Zavisi totiz hodne na presnej znalosti konkretnych okolnosti daneho pripadu.

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gza's picture

Re: Ked zabijate medveda kobercovym naletom budu lietat triesky

nejde o to ci nasinec rozumie, ale ci anglicky hovoriaci porozumeju :p
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Get vaccinated, my logo is branded in your skin.

tommyhot's picture

Re: Ked zabijate medveda kobercovym naletom budu lietat triesky

No tak sorry pisal som to dost neskoro v noci a este k tomu som bol znacne vytoceny tymi zelenymi retardami, priznavam dost na kkt napisane..

catcher's picture

Re: Ked zabijate medveda kobercovym naletom budu lietat triesky

Zdar, v prvom rade opravujem preklad, nech to je trosku oficialnejsie a presnejsie, paci sa mi napad napostovat to niekam do sveta. Takze:

[preklad]

Official message from websupport.sk (Websupport ltd.):

“At June 27th 2007 Police of Slovak Republic disconnected and took away 10 servers of webhosting company websupport.sk (Websupport ltd.) where websites and emails of more than 3500 of their clients were stored. A massive service outage and data loss took place. The equipment has been taken away without a notice and without any reasons explained either to the equipment owner or to the services users.

Company and press requested the explanation, but no information has been given away from the side of Police. The servers were taken because of cracking penetration to Narodny Bezpecnostny Urad Slovenskej Republiky (National Security Bureau of Slovak Republic) which happened more than a year ago.
Police promised to release the equipment immediatelly, but it didn’t happen till now.
Servers should be given back at the night or tomorrow (Jun 27th or 28th 2007).

We do NOT agree with the police action and after the lawyer advices we will take appropriate (perhaps, in cooperation with some or all of our clients). Police just can’t take 10 servers of a commercial company, nor commercial webhosting with the reason, that they didn’t know what they are looking for, so that’s why they took all of them.

We are sorry for any inconvinience caused by this action, our apologies to all of our clients.”

This is happening in Slovak Republic, part of the Europian Union, and we can’t take it anymore. We are not gonna just look at all the illegal actions of the government that happens in this country. Please copy this all over the internet, so the world is going to know what is happening.

www.blackhole.sk – IT security site, which described how was the penetration to NBU done, is stored at the websupport.sk so that’s probably the reason why the police took the servers, but without any notice or explanation, which we think is illegal. NBU – national security agency was “hacked” late last year, where 20gigs of emails were stolen and some more secret stuff (official report from NBU states that no secret data has been compromised). This was done just by guessing the simple password – nbusr123. This password has been not changed few days after publishing the attack details on blackhole.sk though, so you can see how much this country cares about us and our security. No network administrator has been punished at all, they just took onyx (the machine of a czech and slovakian security webpage - hysteria.sk, which has been never prooven to be, nor indicated as a machine used for the NBU attack itself) and was analyzing the data half a year (about 80 GB of data can be copied for later analysis in less than 1 day, for deeper analysis disk drives can be taken, but there is no logical reason to keep the whole machine for half of year at all). So we don’t believe that 10 servers will be given back sooner than that time.

Thank you for your time.

Yours faithfully Slovak people

[/preklad]

A este reakcia na niektore komenty:

To, ze sa pravy utocnik skryva nedava policii pravo na akciu, ktoru vcera urobili.

Vcerajsia policajna akcia je hrubym porusenim zakladnych prav a slobod.

Chcel by som poprosit lekvara, aby dal dohromady nejaky zmysluplny text, na zaklade ktoreho by sme mohli podat zmysluplne trestne oznamenie. Cim viac ludi ho poda, tym lepsie. Myslim, ze lekvar tomu najlepsie rozumie z celej posadky. Mimochodom, trestne oznamenie moze podat ktokolvek, kto ma vedomost o vcerajsej akcii, nemusia to byt len klienti.

Re: Ked zabijate medveda kobercovym naletom budu lietat triesky

diky za poopraveny preklad

taq čo už to niekto niekde postol ??

EDIT:
je spravena stranka ... http://slovakpolice.szm.sk/ ...

taq mozte kopirovať tu

Re: Ked zabijate medveda kobercovym naletom budu lietat triesky

Ludia nesuhlasim so SK polismi a ich riesenim ... ved kto by už bol ...
taq kamos preložil "oficial" spravu len bi ju trebalo rozširiť po swetovich boardoch ... nech sa aj iny dozvedia ako sa mame tu v SR dobre ...

tu je preklad ...

Official message from the websupport.sk
“At 27th June 2007 slovak police without any notice took servers of webhosting company websupport.sk where websites and emails of more than 3500 their clients were stored, which caused a giant loss.
The company and journalist requested the explanation. The servers were token because of the cracking penetration to NBU (something like NSA in USA) which happened more than a year ago.
Police promised immediately to give the servers back, but it didn’t happen till now.
Servers should be given back at the night or tomorrow.
We don’t agree with the police action and after the layer advices we will take (maybe with our all clients) appreciate steps.
Police just can’t took 10 servers of a commercial company, nor commercial webhosting with the reason, that they didn’t know what they are looking for, so that’s why they took all of them.
We thank to our clients for the understanding.”
This is happening in Slovak Republic, part of the Europian Union, and we can’t take it anymore. We are not gonna just look at all of the shit that happens in this country. Please copy this all over the internet, so the world is going to know what is happening.
www.blackhole.sk – IT security site, which described how was the penetration to NBU done, is stored at the websupport.sk so that’s the reason why the police took the servers, but without any notice or explanation, which we think is illegal. NBU – national security agency was “hacked” late last year, where 20gigs of emails were stolen and some more secret stuff. This was done just by guessing the simple password – nbusr123. This password wasn’t change after the few days of blackhole posted the tutorial though, so there you can see how much this country care about us and our security. No network administrator was punished at all, they just took onyx (server of the group that hacked NBU) and was analyzing the data half a year. So we don’t believe that 10 servers will be given back sooner than that time.
Thank you for your time.
Yours faithfully Slovak people

gza's picture

Re: Ked zabijate medveda kobercovym naletom budu lietat triesky

sorry ale ten preklad je hrozny, nedalo mi nereagovat.
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Get vaccinated, my logo is branded in your skin.

Re: Ked zabijate medveda kobercovym naletom budu lietat triesky

rozumies o co v nom ide? ak hej tak je fajn :P
snaha sa ceni ;)

Re: Ked zabijate medveda kobercovym naletom budu lietat triesky

a ten kto hackol nbu je taky CHUDAK, ze sa teraz skryva? takze preco sa ma policia o nieco starat?

Re: Ked zabijate medveda kobercovym naletom budu lietat triesky

Priznej se, ze jsi nbusr123 vymyslel ty?! ;)

y's picture

Re: Ked zabijate medveda kobercovym naletom budu lietat triesky

w1k(k), a podla teba je teda spravne zobrat 10 serverov, pre istotu aj switch :-)? ten chudak, co nastavil take heslo sa preco neprihlasi?

v ziadosti o reg. si mal, ze mienis kritizovat, nie urazat - preco to nedodrzujes?
==
are you canadian?!

gza's picture

Re: Ked zabijate medveda kobercovym naletom budu lietat triesky

s tym switchom to je pravda? :D
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Get vaccinated, my logo is branded in your skin.

gza's picture

Re: Ked zabijate medveda kobercovym naletom budu lietat triesky

lmao!
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Get vaccinated, my logo is branded in your skin.

Re: Ked zabijate medveda kobercovym naletom budu lietat triesky

bez vysvetlenia jednali maybe preto:

lebo ak by s tym (myslene nbu) (trebars) blackhole alebo samotny websupport nieco mal, a dopredu by sa to dozvedeli ze "jedou chlupati" a nemali by pomazane dokazy (ak by sa jednalo o blbeckov) tak by stihli pomazat co sa da a zahladit vsetky stopy.....

to bolo myslene hlavou policajta :D hehe (im not a cop) a.c.a.b. (okrem niektorych kuklacov)

p.s. chudak maco
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с.т.а.л.к.е.р

Re: Ked zabijate medveda kobercovym naletom budu lietat triesky

autor nevie, co pise a ani preco to pise.. nestazoval by som sa na policiu.. proste nejaky blbecek (podla mna niekto z localhost.sk) hackol nbu a teraz sa boji obycajne priznat, takze policajti sa ti nebudu kamos s nikym parat.. to ako naco zvalovat vinu na policiu?:)) ved to je smiesne..

- "zobrať pušku s ísť zastreliť konkrétneho medveďa, ktorý napríklad vyžiera kontajnery v dedine"

mas velmi nizke iq kamo.. pretoze ked pride medved do dediny, aby sa najedol, je to preto, lebo mu ludia beru jedlo.. iq tikve.

Re: Ked zabijate medveda kobercovym naletom budu lietat triesky

Prepac ze budem rovnako urazlivy ako ty, ale vies o tom holy kokot.
Kriticky nizko zabezpeceny postovy server institucie ktora sa stara o bezpecnost statu - vysmech slovenskemu narodu - to ze na to niekto poukaze(ziada skoda na majetku nevznikla - jedine na doverihodnosti NBU) neznamena este ze je zlocinec. Postup policie mi pripada ako chaoticke zastrasovanie ludi, ktori sa (vo volnom case) zaoberaju IT bezpecnostou.
To ze sa policia zhovadia, zapriet jednoducho nemozes. Preco ma podla teba lekvar nizke iq? Nie si ty nahodou urazeny policajt? Vysvetlovat ti ako lekvar myslel svoj blog asi bude zbytocne, pretoze mas krce z toho, ako si policia natrhla sama rit.

JCube's picture

Re: Ked zabijate medveda kobercovym naletom budu lietat triesky

a ma policia problem poziadat o tie informacie? to musi rovno zhabat servery? najma ked prevadzkovatel povie ze vlastne ani policajti nevedeli co vlastne chcu?

[zoologicky kutik]tak moze to byt aj preto lebo mu je lahsie ist vyjedat kontajner ako kricok s cucoriedkami... ci si snad studovany zoolog? :D[/zoologicky kutik]
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piss on you Im going back to Italia

siso's picture

Re: Ked zabijate medveda kobercovym naletom budu lietat triesky

jo... bude to pravna bitka teraz... drzim palce...

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